Dave Davis with Baker Audio Visual expresses the impacts that a supportive environment has on creating a culture that employees will sacrifice their time for. As an executive, it may be as simple as picking up the pizza, while allowing time for your creative team to do what they do best! Find out how constant communication and engagement earned Baker Audio “The Best Places to Work” Award!
Executive Vice President of Baker Audio Visual
3 words that describe you.
Honorable, passionate, compassionate
What inspires you most?
Believe it or not, people’s ability to achieve under extreme conditions amazes me and inspires me to push harder.
Best piece of advice you’ve ever gotten? I had a swimming coach tell me that “As soon as you are satisfied, you need to quit”. This has been an inspiration for me since I was 14 years old. I have carried this over in my personal life and in my professional life. I am always looking for the one extra inch that I can push to achieve. Once I get that, I look for the next one, never being satisfied. Always strive for more!
Do you classify yourself as a nerd, artist or engineer?
All the above. I am a nerd at heart who loves to dissect anything mechanical and can get lost in the latest and greatest technological concepts. I am also an artist who has been involved in music since I was 4 playing the violin first, drums second and the bass third. Considering myself an engineer would do injustice to the profession. I consider myself to have an engineering-like mind in the way that I think about concepts and consider technology implementation.
What gets your adrenaline pumping?
The chase of the sale
What advice would you give to someone interested in an AV career?
The possibilities are endless. Expose yourself to all facets of the industry. There are no wrong paths.
Baker Audio Visual, Inc. is a leading audio-visual firm providing innovative sight and sound communication solutions. Baker provides these services for local, national and international clients encompassing numerous markets including: corporations, mission critical environments, educational facilities, hospitality spaces, sports facilities, places of worship, performance centers and entertainment sites.
From the Podcast Booth:
Series Quick Links
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Epic Company Culture Podcast, where your host, Josh Sweeney, will give you, the business leaders, HR professionals, and company culture aficionados, the knowledge you need to take your company culture to the next level.
Josh Sweeney: Hello, fellow culturists and welcome to the Epic Company Culture Podcast. Today’s series is part of the Culture Champions.
Series: Culture Champions
Before I get started, I would like to thank Prototype Prime for this amazing podcast space. We’re going to kick it off with Dave Davis of Baker Audio Visual. Thanks for being here.
Dave Davis: Absolutely. It’s a pleasure.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, so tell us a little bit about yourself and your company.
Introducing Dave Davis
Dave Davis: Oh, well I’m not very interesting, so I can tell you about the company all day. But I’ve been with the company for I guess going on about 11 years now, which is pretty cool. Was a musician with long hair and did a lot of sketchy things I guess probably in the past and had a good time and found myself in this world, which has been really, really cool. Baker Audio Visual has been around since 1953, so obviously I haven’t been there from the beginning.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, you didn’t start it, I imagine.
Company with a Cool History
Dave Davis: No, [crosstalk 00:01:06], but really cool history to the company, a very innovative type company, and just a really cool thing to be a part of. But we’re in the design build world of audio visual.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, so I guess coming from being a musician to all the wires and things you have to deal with now was, you know, maybe an easy transition? I don’t know.
Dave Davis: It helps, let’s put it that way.
Josh Sweeney: Got it. Yeah, I checked out the website. I love all the visuals. I’m a big fan of a environments like … I come up from a sales background, CRM space originally, and I just love … and I worked in security operations centers and places that had lots of screens. All the data up in front of you, whether it’s comparing salespeople or security incidents, network security incidents or whatever it was. You guys had a lot of beautiful imagery and build outs on the website.
Rely on Product NOT Client Name
Dave Davis: Right. Well, listen, we’re proud of our work. That’s a big, big point for us is we don’t necessarily need the badge of the client name or whatever it is. It’s more about the work and the product that we produce. It’s really cool to have the ability to have projects that produce in that type of imagery, which is awesome.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, definitely makes marketing easy-
Dave Davis: Yeah, makes it easy. that’s right.
Josh Sweeney: Some things are a little less tangible. It’s hard to grab those, those images. All right, so on the company culture side, we like to start off with a little bit of background. Before you were at Baker, what were some of the cultures you worked in that left the best impression with you that you said, “This was an awesome experience. I want to use that in the future”?
Positive Culture Experience
Dave Davis: Well, my background is pretty interesting. I wasn’t a college guy and never went to college or had a degree. I was a musician, so I actually went to all the colleges.
Josh Sweeney: Oh, fun.
Gulf Coast Culture
Dave Davis: I had a different background of learning and that side of the world, but I worked for Lowe’s home improvement for a handful of years and worked in that atmosphere, worked in construction fields, and those types of worlds. Last company I was with before Baker sold construction material that had to do with shore protection. It was all down on the Gulf Coast, and so I got exposed to culture in places like Louisiana and Mississippi and Alabama, just really awesome places to be.
Gravitation Towards Freedom
Dave Davis: I put on probably 40 pounds by working in those areas but really, really cool places to be. But the culture for me was always … I gravitated towards companies that were probably smaller. They had the ability to allow you to have more freedom in what you did to be able to create. That’s what I figured out was that I gravitated to the people that would allow me to create, and their culture they established was smaller and let’s attack business and grow business, and by the way, any idea you have to do that is awesome.
Dave Davis: Those were the things that I really figured out to go, okay, well as I keep progressing and whatever I may do, I want to carry that kind of creativity with me and allow autonomy to happen in those types of things.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, that sounds like there’s a trend towards this hands-on creativity, right?
Dave Davis: Sure.
Josh Sweeney: Even in music, it’s hands on creativity and then construction fields; You’re in multiple construction fields, and now even with the AV, I mean you’re building out those rooms, not you specifically, but your team and your company are building those out. There’s a lot of visual, tactile kind of creativity involved across your industry.
We’re Problem Solvers
Dave Davis: Yeah, there is. But it’s what everybody strives for, right? We’re problem solvers. We just happened to use hardware and software to solve those problems, and we get immersed into atmospheres that are super dusty and crazy to begin with, right, and have rebar everywhere, and we go, okay, how’s our final product really gonna fit in this mechanism? To what becomes this crisp, clean, you know, environment that people are trying to inspire their people to either work in different ways or inspire their own culture or an experience for fans or whatever it may be.
The Atmosphere Created
Dave Davis: We get a hand all the way through that which is awesome. That really inspires people to create, and as they get involved in every little mechanism through there, they stop and they go, “wow, I didn’t know what I do actually affects that thing.” It causes that real creativity to start happening. It’s not just a widget, putting it together. It’s also what’s the effect at the end? What do I do? What’s the atmosphere I created, which is awesome.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, definitely. One that comes to mind for that of what’s the effect at the end is just walking into a boardroom and being able to plug up a laptop and having things come on.
Dave Davis: For sure.
Josh Sweeney: I don’t know how many I’ve been in where nobody can figure it out, and you have to call somebody in, and everybody has a solution to it that never seems to work. I mean that’s a big impact to somebody else down line. I think being aware of that’s probably a huge part of-
Dave Davis: It is.
Josh Sweeney: … that job.
Dave Davis: Yeah. We inspire our staff and team members to understand that. Right?
Josh Sweeney: Yeah.
No Less Importance
Dave Davis: A lot of times, we’ll get somebody that sits with us, and they say, “Well, we’re not a Mercedes Benz Stadium.” I’m like great, because that would put all the gray hair on my chin. You’re not, but what I try to explain is that business is no less important. Right? Your board meeting, your huddle meeting or whatever you’re doing is no less important than what Mercedes Benz is trying to do in creating that fan experience in every event that they have at the facility. It’s what’s important to you at the moment and helps your business and your staff grow.
Everyone Effects the End Result
Dave Davis: That’s what we’re a part of, and so we inspire all of our team members from the fabricators building the racks from the guys shipping the material from the guys programming, all of them, we inspire them to understand what their effect is at that end result. That’s what we see. Right? That really gets them thinking, “Well, I’m not just writing a code so that the TV turns on. I’m writing a code so that it always turns on and that somebody always has success when they’re setting up for whatever meetings. The last thing you want is technology getting in the way.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, definitely. High-impact culture for who you’re implementing for and what their needs are going to be later.
Dave Davis: Absolutely, absolutely.
Negative Culture Experience
Josh Sweeney: Yeah. All right, so you’ve been through multiple different construction-related enterprises. You don’t have to name any names, but what was the most toxic experience you had? What was the culture that you were in, you’re like, “I want to make sure I never worked for a company that does that specific thing or does it that way again?
Personal Culture Needs
Dave Davis: Yeah, I won’t name any names. I think the culture you have to figure out what works for you personally. A culture that may be toxic for me may be great for somebody else. May be what they need. They may need more structure than I may need. They may need somebody who helps them understand that it’s ABC every single day, and that you don’t have this big canvas that you get to paint and create.
Dave Davis: I noticed that certain cultures didn’t work for me, certain highly structured in a sales world, you’re from the sales world, so the guys that are beating 20, 40 calls a day. That kind of world, that culture didn’t work for me. Right? I needed more autonomy. I needed more ability to go and create my own path, and so I can’t say that anybody had a wrong culture or a toxic type culture. They had cultures that just didn’t fit me, and those were it.
The Clarity of Purpose
Dave Davis: Those were the ones that were super, highly structured. What I saw in the ones that I didn’t gravitate towards, I saw that they weren’t clear in their message. They weren’t clear on a consistent basis, not just a single here’s our policy. This is what do. They weren’t clear that this is what we do. This is why we do it. Here’s our purpose. Let me restate it every single week, so somebody buys into it. I saw that as a part of a toxic culture that can exist everywhere you go. By the way, we have to work on ours every single day. It’s a part of it.
The Culture Fit
Josh Sweeney: I like the idea around, one, there may not be a bad culture. They’re just ones that don’t fit you.
Dave Davis: Correct.
Josh Sweeney: Because I’ve noticed that over the years for myself, working for a large corporate entity that just may move a little slower, be more methodical about decisions because they have to, isn’t necessarily the best space for me to move fast and be creative and innovative and a lot of the other things that I like to do.
Dave Davis: Correct.
Josh Sweeney: There’s a certain balance there. Again, not toxic or bad in any way-
Dave Davis: No.
Josh Sweeney: … because it fits a lot of other people.
A Killer of Culture
Dave Davis: It does. I think if I could give advice to anybody, the thing that you need to realize, gossip’s talked about a lot. Gossip is a killer of culture, and that you’ve got to be able to kill that piece that creates a toxic situation. I don’t quite see it the same way. I think that when people are talking within teams and in our office, that is a great thing to have that communication going on. I think that when they use things that would be considered gossip, it’s because they may not be as informed, right? They may not know the total situation, and they jump to assumptions.
Dave Davis: In our culture, that’s why we tried to express everything that’s going on as often and as consistent as we can so that we can not let assumptions get in the way and not let that possible toxic reality jump into our way. We look at it and say, “Well, if that’s their perception, perception tends to be reality. Right?” We haven’t disproven that yet, so let’s change the perception, and that’s how we try to squash that.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, so just to recap on that, gossip happens, and more importantly in probably negative or gossip, it’s a misunderstanding, right?
Dave Davis: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
The Natural Progression of Talk
Josh Sweeney: Not the positive, just natural progression of people talking, but like those styles of gossip, your thought is that that happens because the communication didn’t come across either correctly or it never happened or there’s a a better way to communicate, to break down those barriers.
Dave Davis: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Josh Sweeney: Some sort of knowledge gap.
Communicating to Personality
Dave Davis: Absolutely. I used to laugh, I’d come out of a meeting every once in a while and say, “Why did I say the sky was blue, and they heard it was purple? I don’t understand what just happened there. It took a while for me to understand that different personalities heard things differently. As leaders, we have to reinvent the way that we discuss things and the way that we say to them, and we have to be repetitive, right?
Josh Sweeney: Right.
Dave Davis: We have to continue to say it so that the message stays consistent and as clear.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah. I’ve always heard that if you if you haven’t said it so much that they’re sick of hearing it, then you didn’t say it enough.
Dave Davis: That’s correct.
Reaffirming the Message
Josh Sweeney: Yeah. It sounds harsh, but it does come up again and again. You feel like you do have to repeat those. I think it’s also part of the natural just evolution of the business. I mean, you have churn; you have people that move to different roles. You have people that work on projects for maybe three or six months, and then they come back to something they were doing and need that reminder. There’s just the general dynamics of it require that iterative reaffirmation of everything.
Executing Culture Outside the Office
Dave Davis: It does. It does. Then in our field, because you have projects that consume you, and you’re out of the office, so you’re out of the atmosphere, and you’re carrying the culture out with you on an individual basis and hopefully you’re executing that in whatever environment you’re in, but you can be in that isolated environment for awhile.
Dave Davis: When you come back in, you’re going to have to be reminded, oh, this is what it was like, right? Or we’ve modified this or we’ve done this. In our world, that’s what it is, is a lot of repeat and help with the clarity and the messaging and listen and learn what people are saying and the feedback that we get. Then step back into that and figure out how to deliver the message again.
Out of Office Challenge
Josh Sweeney: What do you see as the biggest challenge of managing lots of teams that are out of the office often on these projects? I can clarify if I’m wrong, but I imagine you have lots of different groups going out and working on projects for long periods of time to build out a board room or a Mercedes Benz or whatever it might be, a stadium. They’re out and about.
Josh Sweeney: What’s the hardest part in managing the culture with all these disparate people probably across the state or country?
Time for Support
Dave Davis: Sure. The hardest thing is finding the time to reach out and touch them and to make sure from a leadership and management level that they know that you’re there, right, and that you still support them. You have to stay highly engaged, and you have to stay highly engaged, not only in the work performance, but you have to stay highly engaged in what’s happening in their life. One thing that we did … Mercedes was a daunting project. It was amazing. Loved being a part of it. We’d love more. Anybody’s listening, bring more stadiums.
Josh Sweeney: Stadiums, right.
Dave Davis: Part of what we learned in that was the sacrifice that people are willing to give, and that was what reaffirmed our grasp of our culture. We never demanded anybody be on site to help us through the end of that project. We had people volunteer, and they showed up, which was really cool. As we stood back and looked at it, what we realized was that they were sacrificing a piece of their family life too. At the end of it, a part of what we wanted to do is we had a shindig.
End of Project Celebration
Dave Davis: We invited their spouses to come or significant others to come. Those that sacrificed a lot of time, we actually sent their significant others gifts and tokens of our appreciation just to say, “We know you sacrificed to help us do this by your time and your family presence.” That’s how we think of things, and, and so when they’re out, that’s how we try to stay. It’s never the same thing every time. It’s not a cut and dry here’s what we should do in the handbook. It’s what’s the situation? How do we stay connected with them?
Dave Davis: But the hardest thing, back to your question keeping the communication going, right, and not stepping away and going “They’re on an island. Oh, there’ll be great. They’ll call me if there’s a problem.” We can’t do that. You’ve got to stay in touch.
Ways to S.I.T
Josh Sweeney: What are some ways that you like to stay in touch? Do you have certain rhythms? Do you use video? What are some ways that our listeners could learn from?
Dave Davis: We use a lot of UC projects, unified communication platform, mostly Microsoft. We’ll use the Skype platform currently and wherever it goes next. We’ll use that to stay in touch, and we like to encourage cameras on so that we can see people as we talk to them. But it’s actually the physical visit, and so the people that are not even here, they’re in Carolina or in Florida or on a project somewhere else, we like to get out of our chair and get out of our office and we go see them.
Dave Davis: We go see the site and management’s encouraged to make those trips and be present. Number one, you get to see what’s going on, right?
Josh Sweeney: Yeah.
Get out of the Office
Dave Davis: You get out of the office, out of the chair, and get to go see what’s going on. Then when you show up, there’s a sense of pride too when they’re out there on that project. They want to show you what they did. You know, they don’t want you looking at the report and looking at the time and all that. They want to show you what’s going on, whether it’s good or bad, and so there’s not a rhythm. There’s just a cause that we pushed to say, “Go. Go out. Be in front of them. See them. Know what’s happening.”
Executive on the Move
Josh Sweeney: I’m a huge advocate of getting in front of people cause we’ve worked with construction companies, we’ve worked with software companies, all kinds of companies. I’ve worked with many different industries in my background, and it’s a huge difference when I work with a company where their executives go out and are always on the move, checking out the work that’s being done and visiting those clients.
Josh Sweeney: It makes an impact to the client that they showed up, the people that are on the project that it was warranted enough attention for them to go out.
Dave Davis: Absolutely.
Absent and Accountable
Josh Sweeney: I’ve seen the opposite where … I’ve worked in organizations where they never went onsite and was like, “Hey, you got that project, good. I’m holding you accountable for it.” I think there’s a lot of psychological impact of somebody being able to show them the work or that firsthand share of here’s what we did and here’s the experience and what does it look like? What’s the finished product?
Lending a Hand ~ In ANY Way
Dave Davis: It is; it is. For me, there’s a recent project where some people were going to dedicate their night and weekend time to get it over the hump because the construction trade was lagging behind a little bit. We went out there and me putting my hands on some thing, I’m a sales guy, so they don’t want that to happen. It will definitely break, so when I go out, what can I do? Well, I could go get pizza; I could bring it in,; I could stay there with them.
Dave Davis: At some point, I’m carrying boxes down the freight elevator because I want them doing something that’s probably a little more meaningful to get us over the line. Even from an executive level, that’s where we’re willing to jump in and do. Accountability is an interesting word because we think of it more on ownership. Accountability starts to have a little bit of a negative connotation to it, so we want to go out and see are they taking ownership of this project? Are they really pushing it across? Are they proud of what’s going on? Then they know they have our support because we showed up.
Favorite Culture of Baker
Josh Sweeney: Awesome. I know we’ve been talking a little bit about Baker, and we went back in the background a little bit, but what is your favorite part of the culture? You get to go visit people; you get to see the work. There’s all kinds of aspects around the ownership. If you had to pick one thing, what is your favorite part of it?
Dave Davis: That’s a pretty tough challenge. I don’t know that I could pick one thing. We moved to an ESOP company here recently, which I’m not sure that you’re aware of or not.
Josh Sweeney: You can explain it. I’ve heard of them, but if you want to explain it for our listeners, that’d be great.
Dave Davis: Yeah. To pick one thing, I think I’m picking the most recent thing and everything that we built. We’d been owned by Keith Hicks, our CEO, and Joe Shook for a long, long time. I became an owner now four or five years ago, something like that. It was three owners of this company, and we decided that eventually we’ve got to plan out what the long-term deal is. Keith Hicks has owned it for 44 some odd years. He had a plan for life that he wanted to move down, and so we had a couple of options to look at.
Dave Davis: ESOP, turning the company over to our employees in this employee-owned plan was the best thing that we could possibly do. It helped us not lose any part of the culture that we feel that everybody has built. It helped us look at a long-term gain and give some people some other advantages from a retirement standpoint. It also brought that ownership word really into play for them to come out and go, “Wait a minute. You’re giving me stock of your company, and I didn’t pay anything for it.”
Dave Davis: We were like, “No, you’re not paying. The only thing you’re paying for is keep doing what you’re doing. If you want to do it better, that’s awesome. It’ll help us. The more profits going, everybody gets a share. It was that thing that got us to the next level. Right?
Josh Sweeney: Yeah.
Best Places to Work
Dave Davis: It’s talked about every single day in the office. I mean, every single day as we’ve been fortunate enough to win the best places to work and be in that whole list for multiple years in a row. Even currently, some of the feedback we got, it’s about ESOP now. That’s part of the discussion, and they’re realizing it which is a inspiring.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah. Just to clarify, that’s employee stock ownership plan. Correct?
Dave Davis: Yes, that is correct.
Josh Sweeney: That’s a process in which over time a big chunk of the company gets turned over, turned into stock, that the employees then invest into or get over a period of time or whatever the format is that you agreed upon-
Dave Davis: Correct.
Josh Sweeney: … with the planners that put that into place. Right?
Dave Davis: Correct.
Ownerships of the Nights and Weekends
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, I mean, I could see how that could be a major change for ownership because if I want to stay nights and weekends and I actually have ownership in this private entity, then that’s going to have an impact later.
Dave Davis: Absolutely.
Josh Sweeney: That’s a whole nother level of ownership as opposed to, well, I own it because this is my job or my role. That’s a literal ownership.
Dave Davis: It is a literal ownership, and you’re thinking about the next thing cause everybody controls dollars, whether it’s in time or whether it’s in purchasing material, and you think about the next move you’re gonna make. You think about, what you have to do with your team and that increased communication. Am I going to pick up the phone? Does it matter at this point? It’s buy in. It’s buy in to that ownership, and that’s what it created, and so everybody is grabbing onto it.
Josh Sweeney: Yeah. Well, I think I’d love to have you back on a year from now to hear like psychologically what happened.
Dave Davis: Sure.
Josh Sweeney: What kind of actions did you see change when people actually became owners, in an ESOP and what kind of impact that’s had into the future.
Dave Davis: Let’s do it.
Future Culture Enhancements
Josh Sweeney: Yeah, that’d be phenomenal. Lots of things to share. Last question that I have for you. Biggest thing you’re looking forward to enhancing. You just did the ESOP, so that’s a big change, and that sounds like it’s really taken wind in the organization. What’s the next thing that you’re looking forward to enhancing from a company culture perspective?
Title of the Year
Dave Davis: Each year, we come out with the title of a year, so in 2018, it was the year pf the challenge where we were going to challenge people to to try to do more with what we have and grow the company and be able to step in a different direction without doubling resources and those kinds of things. It was a challenge and a challenge to produce even a better quality than we already think that we do.
Year of Development
Dave Davis: This year, this year is the year of development in which we want to truly develop people to the next level. That means whether it’s a development in the leadership or whether it’s just a development further in their career path or if it’s something that we can help even in life advice or however that development is, but we center around those kind of themes as we progress through the years and always have that next challenge.
Dave Davis: What I’m very interested to do is to understand where our people are going to help us go in this ever-evolving market that is really hard to put our hands around. It’s inspiring to watch them go, “Okay, so how do I do that and where’s the next place that I can take?” Because it’s them who take us. It’s not me.
Josh Sweeney: I’m sure it’s challenging because you have to get with each individual and find out where they want to go, how do they want to be developed, and that probably is a lot of different directions for people as well.
Dave Davis: It is. It is. You’d be amazed on how many of them are centered around the same thing though. You really would.
Josh Sweeney: What are you hearing so far?
Knowing the Possibilities
Dave Davis: So far, everybody talks about a career here, right? In a day and age where people jump every couple of years from company to company and, that seems to be where things go now. The days of our dads who worked for 34, 50 years at the same company don’t necessarily exist now. What we’re hearing is that they’re very interested in that development and what we can help them see. A lot of it is they don’t know necessarily what are the possibilities.
Dave Davis: From a leadership standpoint, we get to stand back and go, “Oh, hey. Let’s help them paint a picture; let’s show them where that development can go and where we can be to be competitive and to help them, even if it’s they’re staying forever or if they’re staying for a handful of time.”
Josh Sweeney: Yeah. I love it. Well, thank you for sharing all about your company culture and your background.
Dave Davis: Awesome. Thank you.
Josh Sweeney: Thank you for joining us on the Epic Company Culture Podcast. This has been a Culture Champion Series episode with Dave Davis of Baker Audio Visual. If you’d like to hear more, follow us on SoundCloud, Stitcher, and iTunes. We also have all the video up on our YouTube channel at Epic Culture. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in to today’s episode of the Epic Company Culture podcast with Josh Sweeney. If you enjoyed this content, please subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Stitcher. For additional content and transcripts, visit epicculture.co. If you have questions or topics you would like us to address or expand on, tweet us at epicculture1 or email at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Podcast Highlights and Resources
- I gravitated towards companies that were probably smaller. They had the ability to allow you to have more freedom in what you did to be able to create.
- We’re problem solvers. We just happened to use hardware and software to solve those problems.
- Your huddle meeting or whatever you’re doing is no less important than what Mercedes Benz is trying to do in creating that fan experience.
- We inspire all of our team members from the fabricators building the racks from the guys shipping the material from the guys programming, all of them, we inspire them to understand what their effect is at that end result.
- A culture that may be toxic for me may be great for somebody else.
- When people are talking within teams and in our office, that is a great thing to have that communication going on.
- You have to stay highly engaged, not only in the work performance, but you have to stay highly engaged in what’s happening in their life.
- Those that sacrificed a lot of time, we actually sent their significant others gifts and tokens of our appreciation just to say, “We know you sacrificed to help us do this by your time and your family presence.”
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